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Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:56:00 - [1] I get a laugh out of the poor logic skills here sometimes. Saying how EvE is supposed to be harsh, it s supposed to be non carebear blah blah blah. Its also supposed to be for profit, something most suicide gankers never see. Its your sandbox. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.26 16:06:00 - [2] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lemming One So if they stopped paying CCP, something would be done, you mean? Nope. I mean that if people choose not to provide risk for their opponents, they forfeit any right to whine about the "risk vs. reward" of those opponents. Oh, and considering the current market, I'd say ganks need to be promoted. The game would improve immensely if (far) more stuff blew up than is currently the case. A good old mega-war would do too, but people NAP:ing themselves into a coma, so good luck with thatà your sig says it all. Quote: ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki Suiciding isn't fighting by a longshot. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.26 16:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Cipher Jones your sig says it all. Quote: ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki Suiciding isn't fighting by a longshot. Of course not ù it's not for "what you have" after all, but rather for "what someone else has, but you want". It's the receiver of the gank that "has it" and who needs to fight to keep from losing it. àand, as mentioned, if they started to fight over their stuff, the risks for the gankers would increase dramatically; it would be easier to keep your stuff; and everyone would be happy. How does one suicide gank? In a ship? You don't deserve it and you will lose it. I guess that's why they lose it when they gank. You logic seems great up till now. What about the ISK? Not willing to fight for it so you'll lose it much? No, it doesn't hold water. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 04:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Balsak Originally by: 1Ekrid1 Hulkagedon is greifing. griefing is against the EULA. Eris of CCP approves of hulkagedon. Therefore, griefing is fine, and the EULA is not enforced, when CCP approves of it, or you can make it look okay. Therefor, the EULA is a pile of horse crap and CCP doesnt really care about enforcing it. Just on the extremely slim chance you aren't trolling. Would you please explain how exactly Hulkageddon is griefing ? Just on the extremely slim chance you really dont understand what griefing is: Quote: Definitions of Griefing on the Web: * A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game that purposely irritates and harasses other players. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefing This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 04:21:00 - [5] Obviously it does not fit the definition because you are not being harassed. Its a sandbox so expect to get sand in your vag. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 04:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Jason Babbage Edited by: Jason Babbage on 27/06/2010 04:29:06 Originally by: Cipher Jones Obviously it does not fit the definition because you are not being harassed. Its a sandbox so expect to get sand in your vag. When another player uncuts my price on the market it is costing me ISK, both in the form of having to lower my prices and in the opportunity costs I am losing by the time value of my money. Me having to lower my price by 1% is costing me 10 times the value of a Hulk. So you are saying that the guy who loses the Hulk to some nasty piwate is being greifed, but when I lose hundres of millions of ISK because someone undercut my market order I am not being harrased? Please explain how it is any different? In both cases one player is deliberatly causing the loss of ISK and time to another player. How can you say the Hulk pilot is being harrassed but the market trader is not? The market trader is losing a considerably larger chunk of his time and money, why is it OK to harass him but it is not OK to blow up some miner in a hulk? Please explain the differance? Capitalism vs suicide bombing and you cant understand the difference. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 06:04:00 - [7] Quote: CCP should get rid of high sec then. All EvE is 0.0 sec. No more bull **** pretend safe sec crap. Everyones answer is to PvP the PvPers you in the place you dont want to PvP them. That wont work, the game will go bankrupt. Why? To everything there is a bell curve. Those who fall on the low side of the bell curve would not be able to play the game as they would go bankrupt. As far as explaining griefing I'll not feed the trolls anymore. "It is what it is" as my dear friends the Wu Tang Clan have generously pointed out. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 17:32:00 - [8] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 27/06/2010 17:33:55 Quote: Maybe you should have quoted the definition CCP uses insteadà It would explain very well why hulkageddon is not griefing. Quote: You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. Quote: Under the United States Code Title 18 Subsection 1514(c)1. Harassment is defined as "a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such a person and serves no legitimate purpose". So there you have it. According to the rules of conduct for EvE online, suicide ganking is against the rules. If you scan someone down, and they have something you can legitimately steal, its not harassment as that is a legitimate purpose. If you randomly suicide gank or repeatedly suicide gank the same person you are in violation of the rule. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 17:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Jason Babbage Edited by: Jason Babbage on 27/06/2010 17:38:38 Originally by: Cipher Jones substantial emotional distress Blowing up someone in a GAME and making some number in a GAME database change causes "substantial emotional distress" ?!?!?!?! Are you serious? Someone needs a hug or something. The numbers generated in the game database are paid for with real world currency. If you lose 1.2 bil in Eve you lose $70USD. It obviously causes substantial emotional distress to many people including the OP. That's why its not harassment if you actually suicide gank them with the legitimate intent of gaining ISK. Thats the only time it does not violate the rules of conduct. Heres the same definition on a lower reading level: Quote: SIMPLY: Simply anything that people do for no good reason or lawful reason or purpose and they know it distresses you is harassment. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 18:41:00 - [10] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 27/06/2010 18:44:16 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Cipher Jones The numbers generated in the game database are paid for with real world currency. If you lose 1.2 bil in Eve you lose $70USD. No you don't. Or, rather, if you do, you're an ISK seller and I suspect that CCP will turn a blind eye to anyone who makes you quit. CCP sells ISK, not me. They are the only ones allowed to. You usually make decent posts but ... If you lose ISK/USD that makes you an ISK buyer, not seller. There is a world of difference. Huge fallacy there. Originally by: Gladys Pank Originally by: Cipher Jones The numbers generated in the game database are paid for with real world currency. If you lose 1.2 bil in Eve you lose $70USD. It obviously causes substantial emotional distress to many people including the OP. That's why its not harassment if you actually suicide gank them with the legitimate intent of gaining ISK. Thats the only time it does not violate the rules of conduct. Heres the same definition on a lower reading level: Quote: SIMPLY: Simply anything that people do for no good reason or lawful reason or purpose and they know it distresses you is harassment. I know you are just trolling but this is so wrong its hilarious. I am not trolling whatsoever nor even close to wrong. I gave the legal definition and the dumbed down definition. If you feel the dumbed down definition is wrong that's fine, However the legal definition is pulled directly out of the legal code. To say that that is trolling is ludicrous. I posted CCPS rule along with the definition. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 19:00:00 - [11] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 27/06/2010 19:01:09 Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 27/06/2010 18:55:12 Originally by: Cipher Jones CCP sells ISK, not me. No, they don't. Quote: If you lose ISK/USD that makes you an ISK buyer, not seller. There is a world of difference. Huge fallacy there. Yes, the fallacy is that if you lose ISK, you lose $$$ as you claim. This is not true. The only way for ISK loss to be a $$$áloss is if you intended to sell that ISK for $$$ ù i.e. if you're an ISK seller. Quote: However the legal definition is pulled directly out of the legal code. To say that that is trolling is ludicrous. I posted CCPS rule along with the definition. It's trolling because it rests on the assumption that loss of ISK ≡ loss of $$$ which isn't true unless you're selling ISK. Im glad you want to debate semantics. CCP sells time codes which you redeem for ISK. 600mil ISK = $34.95 USD in that virtual universe. But you knew that because you were trolling. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 19:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Cipher Jones Im glad you want to debate semantics. CCP sells time codes which you redeem for ISK. 600mil ISK = $34.95 USD in that virtual universe. No. CCP sells time codes, which you exchange with other players for ISK. The $$$ádoes not give you ISK; they give you game time; the game time can be traded for ISK and vice versa; ISK cannot be turned into $$$. The only way to lose $$$áby losing ISK is if you're breaking the EULA. At this point you arent even comprehending what I write. Quote: Reddem: to turn in (vouchers or coupons) {GTC} and receive something in exchange {ISK} This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 23:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Cipher Jones At this point you arent even comprehending what I write. Quote: Reddem: to turn in (vouchers or coupons) {GTC} and receive something in exchange {ISK} Oh I understand what you're saying. I'm also saying that you're wrong. You can't do that. You do not redeem GTCs for ISK. More to the point, you can't do the opposite. Without that ability, your entire line of reasoning that you lose money when you're getting ganked and that it therefore causes emotional distress falls on it's ass. If you buy a month of gametime its worth 14.95 If you "plex" month of gametime its worth 14.95. If you buy a Maelstrom its worth 100mil isk. 100mil ISK is worth $4.98USD. Its like you saying a bottle of vodka in your refrigerator is not worth anything because it is illegal to sell it. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.27 23:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Joe Skellington I just wasted 4.98 reading your post Hooked on phonics has a moneback guarantee so you're good to go. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.28 00:04:00 - [15] Quote: Then it's not a fact, but an opinion. Yes, the Rules of conduct are my opinion. The definition of harassment is my opinion. Quote: Nobody cares... Obviously no one cares. They just all hate me and want a chance to read me trolling you (sic) so they read and participate in the thread. This is clearly a signature.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.28 00:15:00 - [16] Quote: Your interpretation of the rules of conduct is entirely wrong. That's the thing, I didn't interpret them, I quoted them and then I defined harassment. So now I have to leave the thread, because there are several people crying like little girls with skinned knees and at this point I am certainly causing emotional distress by citing facts to fanbois. Take it easy. This is clearly a signature.

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